Ep111 Dustin Riechmann—The 5-Step System That Turns Podcast Guesting Into Clients

Dustin Riechmann  0:00  
There's so many ways to enrich and build relationships. And I think podcasting opens up, you know, just a plethora of ideas and ways to do this. What you shouldn't do, in my opinion, is, do the interview? Have it be published? And have that be the end of the story? That's the beginning of the story. 10% of this is getting on the right shows and doing a good job. 80 90% is all the stuff you can do with it after the fact. And I hope that's the you know, one of the things people take away from our conversation.

Jason Croft  0:26  
Welcome to strategy in action, where we reveal how industry leaders build real market gravity, the force that naturally attracts opportunities, partnerships and profits. You get raw insights, proven frameworks and strategies that actually move the needle in your business. Let's get started.

Jason Croft  0:48  
Dustin recommend, welcome to the show. Yes. Jason, very excited to be here and happy to happy to dive in with you. Oh yeah, this is gonna be fun. Bear with us, folks, because

Jason Croft  0:59  
this is a chance for both of us to, like, geek out on this idea of podcasting both sides, the guesting, the hosting. I certainly come from the side. Have go have a show. Honestly. What I tell people when they're like, gosh, should I have my own show? Should I be a guest on other shows? I'm like, yes, yes, yeah, and I agree, yeah, when you do both, there's an amazing combination to that. We'll get into some of those details. But Dustin having you on here, I want to give people geography before we dig into this idea. Our core topic today is going and being the guest on people's shows

Jason Croft  1:37  
as a means of getting the word out there that's certainly your specialty. Both you did it for yourself first, right? You sold meat sticks doing this. So everybody, if you're thinking like, well, I don't know if my business will fit,

Dustin Riechmann  1:53  
it'll fit, right? Give folks that geography just a little bit and how you're helping people do this right now. Yeah, do you want me to get into the sort of origin story of this and how it came into my life? Yeah, please do that. Give folks, you know, Dustin's got his book. That's what he does. It's for folks right now, is helping people be guests and build their business around this. But, yeah, give us that origin story of what brought you here in the first place, out of that first experience of discovering it as a marketing play for sure. Well, I think it's important for people to understand I'm not, at my core, a marketing person. I don't actually come from a broadcast media. You know, even business background. My professional background was actually in engineering. So I was a civil engineer, specifically a traffic engineer, for 17 years, and throughout my career, really, most of that time, I had this entrepreneurial bug, and I was like, man, there's, there's something here I want to do beyond this sort of day job and beyond the corporate career. So because of that, I had multiple online businesses that I ran as side hustles while I was an engineer, first one was grew out of some marriage ministry work my wife and I were doing, and that brought me online, got me into writing and just learning how to market myself and present ideas to strangers on the internet. And that pull really took hold of me, and for the second half of my engineering career, I was really getting deep into digital marketing. So 2018 I left engineering, became a full time marketing consultant, which kind of helping anyone who who needed some marketing help, built websites, did offers, messaging, those sort of things, all self taught and and learning from other experts, including some of your your previous guests here on the show, and there's a couple year period there I was just doing that consulting work, and the meat sticks enter the equation here in that I ended up forming a partnership with one of my clients. So he was a butcher shop owner, had really cool story. And he said, Hey, man, can you sell stuff online? And I said, Yes, what do you have in mind? And so we ended up forming this partnership for a brand that was called Fire Creek snacks. And that was really pivotal, because it pulled me into a whole different world, where I started going to trade shows and selling into brick and mortar and wholesale and just kind of like a whole new world of marketing that was really important. And then that intersected with March 2020 when I was driving to one of these, my 19th trade show actually up in Chicago, I got a phone call that, hey, the Ace Hardware trade show has been canceled. And like, that's weird. So I come home and, you know, we all know where we're at at that time. And so for me, the whole marketing engine that was driving fire free snacks evaporated overnight, and I lost a good chunk, about 80% of my revenue from a consulting business because I was working with a lot of local businesses who were shut down. And so the good news is I said there's got to be some other way to access people, tell this story, get people to try out our product, even if I can't physically be in proximity to them. And.

Dustin Riechmann  5:00  
So I got on my first podcast as a guest in the summer of 2020 in response to all of that, and it went really well. And we sold some meat sticks to strangers on the internet. And I was like, hey, there's there's something to this. And what I really started to realize is I started to build relationships, and I started to have follow up conversations. And so I just started doing that repeatedly, coming out of 2020, into 2021, and we really resurrected that whole brand of fire Creek. Hit a seven figure run rate without paid ads, which was pretty unusual in the E commerce space at that time, had some cool opportunities, got into WalMart, got a half million dollar purchase order from the biggest subscription box company in the country, all of that was coming from podcast guesting, and then the relationships that were built there. So then, as the proverbial coaching journey goes, someone said, Can you help me with that? And I was like, I guess they only never really done coaching. I never really tried to teach someone the stuff that I've been figuring out for myself and and it worked, and I started to help people. And fast forward to today. The last three years, you know, I've since exited that partnership with fire Creek. I've, you know, shut out all of the consulting clients, and my full time focus now is this company, seven figure leap, and our whole specific focus is working with coaches, consultants and agency owners and helping them use podcast guesting as a way to generate high quality leads and grow their business. So, yeah, a lot of people are like, How'd you get into podcast guesting as like a thing? And I say, well, it was meat sticks, right? And they're like, How'd you get into meat sticks? Well, through marriage ministry, right? And it's like, so in reverse, it kind of makes sense. But that is how I became the quote, unquote, podcast guesting guy as we sit here today, Jason,

Jason Croft  6:42  
you know just one of this. Oh my gosh. I've heard it 100 times. The old engineer turned marketer, turn marriage ministry, turn meat stick, turn podcast guesting story. Yawn.

Jason Croft  6:59  
Hey kids, if you want to do this for a living, here's the path, Right exactly. I think that's a, I think that's a course in a university down the road. I think right now, here's the path that is so awesome. I love the wild twisting turns of your background there. It's, it's, it's so fun. And it's, I don't know, there's just a, there's a piece as just a little side track of lessons to pull from that is, is that idea of keep moving forward and keep following those threads? Yes, and you get a little pull. You get a little you know, like, maybe the marriage ministry feels like off on a tangent, because it's not necessarily the business part, but how critical was that, right? Take, dip your toe online and all I just, I love that stuff, and I think it's that's a lesson to pull out too, is to follow those and just dive in when you are following them. I think as well. You brought up something, and I think we'll dive into it a little bit deeper

Jason Croft  8:05  
later. But where I always start with promoting, why have a show? Right? It's is the idea of, you know, really building a show so that it grows your business, right? Bring on ideal clients, bring on strategic partners, and have that almost not a sales conversation by any means, but have that first conversation with somebody who could be a

Jason Croft  8:27  
client. Your approach. We've talked about already using podcast guesting to market your business and all of that, and yes to all of it, but something you touched on during that story as well, is, are those relationships that get built?

Jason Croft  8:48  
And

Jason Croft  8:50  
again, that's, that's the human part

Jason Croft  8:54  
for you and I, I know is that's the fun part anyway, but also, it's also the business part too, because you had mentioned, like, some of those relationships that got you into those stores and grew your business more. It was because of those full relationships. It wasn't someone listened to the show and ordered six meat stack that, you know, sticks and you know, it's it was deeper than that. Like, oh, you should meet so and so,

Jason Croft  9:19  
instead of skipping, let's dig into that just a little bit more. Because for me, from day one a decade ago, when I started podcasting like I still have dear, close, amazing friends from from that to this day, and I don't think I even talk about that part enough, let's stay there for a minute with this. And how has that shown up from way back then all the way to now? And being a guest?

Dustin Riechmann  9:50  
Yeah, I think the through line, that crazy journey, and I skipped many chapters of it for brevity. I think the through line is one thing I've always valued.

Dustin Riechmann  10:00  
And I think I've done very intentionally, is what I would call planting relationship seeds, right? Like this idea that collaboration and partnership and serving other people first is always going to pay off in the long run, right? Like you reap what you sow, and you got to sow to reap. And so I think as a very specific example of this in 2010

Dustin Riechmann  10:22  
I met this guy named Tony. He had a marriage business. I had a marriage business. And even in the very early days of growing what became that brand, I was looking for collaboration. I say, you know, I'm not the expert at everything. You guys are crushing it. In fact, they had one of the first podcasts, and now they have the largest marriage podcast in the world. And what I saw there, though, is the potential to partner. And I said, Hey, why don't you come over here and be a guest expert on the platform I'm building? And he, you know, he reciprocated Tony. And I basically, kind of grew up throughout digital marketing, and I helped, I've helped him, over the years to grow his business. He was the he was in the very first cohort of the thing I now do for this business. He's, you know, been a big supporter. He's in my mastermind and in fact, he's now one of our coaches that helps teach podcast guesting to people, you know, 15, almost 16 years later. And so that's just one of 1000s of examples of just the idea of relationship, capital, nurturing relationships being of service to other people, without expecting something in return, but also realizing that the return always comes because of the Law of Reciprocity. So I think that is the through line among all the things that I've had any success with, really, is just, it's all relationship based. And one of the things I feel so pulled to podcasting as a platform, and podcast guesting, obviously, is the side that I focus on is, yes, it generates leads. It's good for SEO. You build your email list, you make sales, like all those things happen. But the real differentiator about podcasting is because of the human to human relationship that forms. It always has the potential to have exponential growth, because any one relationship can truly kind of change the game and become an inflection point in your business and your life. And I like podcast guesting when you do it systematically, first and foremost, because it's a way to build high quality relationships at scale. So that is, to me, why it's so vital. And I would say the same thing on the hosting side, which I do, you know, host a podcast as well. So yeah, I think that's that's the big idea here is like, whatever suits you, your personality, your values, it doesn't really matter the application specifically, but the key driver of growth is going to be relationship building. And a lot of people, including me as an introvert, struggle to do that. And so if you put yourself in a environment and a system where you get to do the thing you like to do already, which for many of my clients, at least, is teaching, coaching, telling stories. If that was a way to build high quality relationships, if you do it very intentionally and you strategically like, wouldn't that be a cool way to grow your business? And so that's really what we seek to do, and make that as easy as possible for our clients. So it's all about relationship building, though, at the end, building, though, at the end of the day, so many paths to go down. I just, I love, I love that you mentioned the aspect of being an introvert. I'm not. Everyone knows that I'm obnoxious. I'm an extrovert. But

Jason Croft  13:16  
I've also heard from many introverts that it's not about it's not that I don't want to talk to people, or can't talk to people, it's that they don't want to be in that out of control. There's 100 variables, like showing up at a networking event that's draining, yes, but when you can control the environment and the interaction, they'll thrive. Yes, there that way, and you can do that with your own show, with guesting on other shows. I'm really, especially now, of course, doing it remotely. And that's, that's another piece, and that's what I want to get into. A lot on this idea of why this matters so much guesting, and then why, honestly, I'll pitch it on your behalf, why work with someone like you to go and do this?

Jason Croft  14:01  
Because there are so many wrong ways to do it, and it's some are wrong ways, sure, but a lot of them are just missed opportunity ways too, that if you don't do certain things, you're you're almost wasting that that time. So let's, let's play there a little bit like I think you and I, again, are on the same page in terms of using this medium

Jason Croft  14:26  
as a way to grow your business market, meet people. Because it's, I

Jason Croft  14:32  
don't know, I just feel like it's the it's the most genuine version of doing that that we can do.

Jason Croft  14:39  
And I've always been wired that way. I understand. I can make 1000 cold calls this month, and three people might say, Yeah, I understand that. I just, I'm just not wired that way. I don't want to do it, and you won't do it because it doesn't come natural, and it doesn't feel in alignment with your values, you know. And so.

Dustin Riechmann  15:00  
People love cold calling, not me, you know. And I think, you know, the introvert thing comes up a lot with guessing. Is

Dustin Riechmann  15:07  
you again, you get to show up and do the thing you already love to do, right? And so for many of the people I work with, they're coaches, you know? They could be a

Dustin Riechmann  15:18  
executive consultant. They can be an email marketing expert. They could be a marriage coach, right? Whatever they already like to do. If I said, What if you just spent all day doing coaching, the people I work with usually say, like, oh my gosh, that'd be a dream. Like, I'm so good at the thing I do. I just love it. I just don't love marketing. And so our whole paradigm shift is like, what if you just did the thing you love to do, and it was your marketing, and if you're an introvert, especially, like, what if you could do that in one on one conversation? One conversations with people who really want to understand what you do, and they want to learn from you as well, and then later on, other people will listen into that, and you put a system around it, and it generates leads like that. That's that. That's what I'm trying to do here, too. So yeah. So anyway, sorry for the interjection, but I wanted to kind of expand on that idea of getting to do what you love in a it is

Dustin Riechmann  16:05  
a kind of a controlled environment where everyone's rooting for you to win. You know, the host wants you to look good, and they're not trying to trip you up. But there's also, you know, the ability to think on your feet. You can teach the same thing on 100 podcasts, and every podcast is going to be different, because it's a human, human interaction, right? It's not recording into an echo chamber like you get to have conversations and nuances and empathy and story and emotion and all the stuff that comes from talking to another human. I think that's why we're so drawn to listening to podcasts too. Or I know at least that's why I am. Oh yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. And I have to

Jason Croft  16:41  
step back when,

Jason Croft  16:45  
I guess putting myself in the shoes of your ideal folks who are coming into your cohorts, because so many of them, they haven't done this before, they've done one or two maybe. And that is a piece, and that's where I definitely want to cover here some of those myths, and

Dustin Riechmann  17:03  
they could come up as objections, but like those things that just prevent them from going and doing this on on both sides, I've got my answers for for some of those. As someone who gets, you know, people reach out to be on the show, but, but also from what they think it's going to take, just like, what you mentioned, like, oh, well, I've only got these couple of stories. Can I really go on all these, these podcasts? What are some of those other myths that are coming up that kind of hold people back from from jumping in? Yeah, I think to set the stage for this in my seat. You know, where people like you do podcast guesting, or, you know, you understand podcasting, I actually hear one of two ends of the spectrum. And one that you already said is, I've dabbled in this. I'm, like, aware of it. Maybe I got on one or two shows, sort of through a friend, and I enjoyed it, and I got a client, and that's really cool. But I don't see how I could do this repeatedly, or, you know, like, systematically. The Other Side, actually, that I hear a lot, which is probably unique, and just kind of the role I play in the marketplace is, hey, Dustin, I've been on 100 shows this year. I'm really good at being a guest. I love it. I get so much energy from it, and I have no problem getting on shows. Everyone tells me I'm a great interviewer or interviewee. And I say, that's amazing. Like, you have a business, right? Yeah, I do. Oh, cool. Like, what's this done for your business? And there's usually this blank stare of, I don't know, or really nothing you know, because I think these, these are where we meet business owners on podcasts, right? It's it. You should enjoy the activity the podcasting, but you also need to drive a result. And so, like, our main program is called the podcast profits accelerator. So it's, it's marrying podcasting as a medium, but also with a very clear objective, which is to grow your business and have profits from it. And so some of the myths that come up as a result of kind of both those spectrums is, people will say, this isn't scalable, right? Like, Oh, I did it. It's, you know, it felt like a lot of work. Or, you know, it was, it was fun, but I don't see how I could do this repeatedly, or it's not scalable in the sense that I put a lot of time and energy into this, and I am not seeing a return. And so unlike maybe other digital marketing alternatives, like paid ads or SEO, or things where people feel like it's more predictable. They may say, Oh, this podcasting thing is fun. I'm sure I'll, you know, at some point, something good is going to come from it. But it doesn't feel like it's predictable. It doesn't feel like I can, like, see a path towards profitability. I think that's a huge myth that we help people address with just with better systems and better strategy around it.

Dustin Riechmann  19:40  
There's a lot, there's lots of myths, you know, there's the myth of I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm taking or like it's icky. It's like, oh, you know, I receive all these horrible emails and cold pitches and bad LinkedIn DMS and like, I don't want to be one of those people. I don't want to pester a host and make them feel i.

Dustin Riechmann  20:00  
Like they're rejecting me or something. And the flip of that, the reality of that, is, no, the host actually is looking for great guests, great content, but you have to approach them in the right way, and you need to come in with the mindset of service. Like, how can I serve this person's audience, add value? And yeah, something good is going to come for me or for me as a result. But the main thing is, like, how do I create a win, win, win relationship, where, yeah, it's good for me, but it's really good for the audience, and therefore it's most of all good for the host, and that this is a place to serve, not a place you're not taking, you're giving. I think that's that's a big kind of mindset shift for people when they think about, do they deserve to be in, you know, the guest seat? Or who would ever want to hear from them. And so you have a ton of value to add, and most of that value is actually in your own story. And we just need to, like, package that up the right way and let you communicate it clearly. So there's many more myths, Jason, but those are the ones that come to mind for me, right off top of the bat that I hear on a daily basis, really.

Jason Croft  21:01  
Oh yeah, that's again, the power of going in and getting help through this process two major ways. In my mind,

Jason Croft  21:13  
is that packaging their story up for them, helping them, that's that's massive. And then, and then that second piece. So I hear the same thing. People go and they'll jump on podcast. I'm like, Oh, cool. What's your kind of call to action in there? What do you have people doing? And what do you like?

Jason Croft  21:34  
I don't know, yeah,

Dustin Riechmann  21:36  
yeah. We need to get that figured out. Because, yeah, there's no reason to do it, if you're not, yeah and and not shying away from that fact too, that we all know, that's the play here, like you mentioned, like this is, you know, for profit, right? This is the growth, and everyone wins in that, in that piece. What? What are some of those best practices when it comes to making the most of that appearance, that that you kind of help people create and make sure that they're they're doing, yeah? So we think of this, and we teach this in sort of five step framework. And so I think if I hit those highlights, it'll enlighten people to maybe, if there's a piece of this that they haven't even thought about, or a piece that they're like, Oh, I messed that up every time I've tried this, right? So we call them the five Ps, purpose, plan, pitch, perform, profit. And real briefly, we start with purpose. I think this is the part that most people skip, and it's really where people get out of alignment with some of those examples I talked about earlier, where they don't see how this is going to serve their business, or they don't have a way to measure ROI. So the first thing we do in purpose is, in this a very simple question. Answer the question for you, specifically, why do you want to be a podcast guest? Right? And it's like, oh, that's seems like a simple question, but underlying that question are questions about, Who's your ideal client, what's the transformation you provide, what's the message that you need to deliver in order to attract that ideal client, right? Like, these are all key things, and then that's in the same step with our clients, at least, we set up KPIs, and we set up measurable

Dustin Riechmann  23:10  
indicators of whether we're winning, like whether this is actually working. So we start with purpose, once you're clear on why you're doing this and who you're trying to reach. Step two we call plan, which is basically research, right? It's like finding the right shows to be on, that actually becomes pretty clear once you know why you're doing it, who you're trying to reach, and we've got some you know, specific processes to help make that as efficient as possible. But step two is finding a basically a prioritized list of shows that you think you would be a great guest on, that would you add value and that it would meet your business objectives. Step three is pitch. So hey, we got this great list of podcasts. Now we have to compel the host to show why we can add value and have us on their show, right? And we could do a whole episode about how to screw up pitches and do it in a yucky way. That's not what we're doing. You know? We're doing it in a warm, intentional way. But step three is just basically reaching out to the host and getting that invitation, step four is perform. So congratulations. They said, yes, you're going to be on the show. And then that's where sort of the art and science of how to be an effective interviewee takes place, right? So how do you introduce yourself? What's your positioning for this show? Like, who are you in this show? Because we all have many different versions of ourselves and stories to tell. What stories do we tell? And you already keyed on it. The most critical thing is, what's the call to action? So if someone gets listening and they're really invested in you, and they like, they like you, and they trust you, and like, I need to know more about this, like, you've got to tell them what to do next, and you have to do it very directly. So that's step four, and then step five is profit. And so in our world, the key to doing this well and knowing that the results are there is it's generating revenue for your business, right? And so just to give context for the listener, we work with people for 90 days, typically, and we take care of the first four.

Dustin Riechmann  25:00  
P's in 30 days. So it really doesn't take that long to get their message dialed in, find the shows, pitch the shows and start doing great interviews. We spend 60 days. Like two thirds of our time with these entrepreneurs is spent on the profit part, which is all the different ways you can leverage each podcast guesting opportunity that you get to move the needle and grow your business, right? So those are the five Ps, Jason, that I talk a lot about, and I think that always gives people good context, because they may be like, Oh, I hadn't even thought about, you know, there's certain things I should do when I'm on the show, or I never even considered why I'm doing this in the first place. And people jump right into I found the show. I found the 100 shows I did all these interviews. And it's like, for what you know, and it's like, once you, once you understand why you're doing it, then you know if you're doing it the right way, and if it's actually getting the results that you're hoping for. Oh, that's fantastic, both in that inside, aha. But I love just the order and how that's how, that's you take people through that process, because it does once you, once you answer purpose at that beginning. Yeah, that, I mean, that just informs everything else. Is so critical to get that down, I want to dig in in a minute to some examples, if you can share of more what you know, all the ways that you can profit, you know, just a few examples of that that maybe we're not thinking of but also, let's, let's kind of back and forth a little bit from the point of view of podcast host and you pod, you know, helping people with the podcast guesting,

Jason Croft  26:33  
when you're having them reach out. Is it usually themselves? Is there kind of a formula for that that you kind of guide them through. I know some people use PR firms or some equivalent, you know, or they do it themselves. And as a host, I'm kind of indifferent when it comes. I don't know it's I'll give some my thoughts in a minute, but we'll guide through. I'd love your perspective on this in the way that I prefer to do this, the way that I've had success, and we've had 220 ish people go through our program at this point, so I've got a good sample size to see what works and what doesn't work. I'm a big advocate of doing this yourself, meaning it comes from you personally, right?

Dustin Riechmann  27:15  
Part of what we do with entrepreneurs is we actually help them use a virtual assistant to do a lot of the legwork. Once we've dialed in sort of the high level messaging and strategy with the entrepreneur themselves. So when I say, quote, unquote, do it yourself, I don't mean that you are writing emails from scratch and sending them all out, but it is you and your voice from your individual email address. And the whole posture about this is like, Hey, Jason, here's how I think I could serve your audience like, that's the posture. It's not the posture of what most booking agencies or PR agencies do, which is Dustin Rickman is God's gift to business. And like, he's a New York Times blah, blah, blah, and he was on the Today Show. And like, you would be honored to get five minutes of time with Dustin. Like, you know, it's not that at all. So it comes from a place of service, humility, but also authority. Like we are I'm going to tell you, like, here's what I can teach your audience, here's what I think this is going to add unique value to your program. Like, we're going to be assertive, but we're going to do it from a place of service. And as far as structure goes, I think it's like a three piece formula, and you can apply this in a lot of different formats, you know, LinkedIn, video, email, but if we just think of it real simply, as in email, this email is going to first and foremost be custom and tied to that host. So our whole approach is quality over quantity. We're not sending 500 cold pitch emails and hope that one of them says, Yes, it is very intentionally written to Jason in this example. And I'm going to do anything I can in the opening to this message to connect with you on a personal basis. We call it a relational anchor, you know. And that could be, you know, a takeaway from a previous episode I know, like you just say Muslim. If I was pitching Jason for this, I'd say, Hey, I actually know Qasim. He's amazing. So cool that you had this interview with him. I took this away for the first time, even though I'd known Qassem for a while. Great job, Jason. Well, now you're like, Okay, this is a real human he actually cares about me and gave me some some, you know, insight, and now I kind of have permission to say, here's how I think I could be a good guest and add some value to your show. So second part of this email, after we've done the relational anchor, is a bullet point summary, three to five bullet points of exactly what I want to teach your audience and what I want to share with your audience, right? And we craft these to be compelling. You know, there's some copywriting involved, just to make sure that when the host sees them, they're like, oh my gosh, I got to know more about that, right? So they're curiosity inducing, and they are written from a place of credibility and authority. And then the the closing part of this message is a call to action. So just like on the interview, you need to ask for what you want. So you need to ask if they're interested in having you as a guest, right?

Dustin Riechmann  30:00  
So that's really it, though. It's relational anchor, what's in it for them, meaning the host reading this email, what's in it for their audience, and then a simple call to action. And you can send this in an email. You can send this in a couple of DMS on LinkedIn. You kind of break it up into different pieces of the conversation. Some people, you know, their brand or their audience is more video oriented or Instagram oriented. So doing a selfie video version of this is awesome, or you can screen share and do a loom video. So there's different ways to deliver it. I don't want people to get caught up on that. The main thing is be intentional. Actually care about the person who's receiving it. Send it from you from a place of service, and ask for what you want. I think if you do that, our typical acceptance rates are 30 to 40%

Dustin Riechmann  30:45  
I know cold outreach agencies are, you know, podcast booking agencies is two to 5% you know. So it's a much more effective way. And in the person receiving it actually feels like valued, and they're much more interested in having this conversation than if they feel like they're just a number and you're just churning and burning through a bunch of outreach. Yeah, are you sending something along with that link to information, a one pager or anything like that? I We do not the master pitch, as I like to do. The first version is exactly what I said, plain text, email, I'll put my name at the end, and I may link like seven figure leap.com just so they can have some context. And who is this person?

Dustin Riechmann  31:29  
We do have a media kit, but typically we don't even introduce that until the host says, send me more information or, yeah, I think this would be great. Do you have, you know, contact? You have a headshot in the bio I could review. Or often we don't even use it until we've booked the show, and they say, Hey, we need some, you know, onboarding, sort of information for the show. So I again, it's totally a posture thing. I know when I receive these, of course, I receive a ton of these too, if it leads with, here's my bio, or here's my media kit. Here's my, you know this, there's a PDF attached to this. For one, it hurts deliverability. And two, it sets the wrong tone. And it's like, you know it's, it's, I don't know. It's just that comes from a PR agency, and we're trying to very intentionally show we're not a PR agency. I am Dustin, and I want to serve Jason in your audience, so I'm sending this as Dustin and it just doesn't feel like natural to me to send a one pager in the very first interaction we've ever had.

Jason Croft  32:27  
Yeah, I think there's a middle ground to it, because I totally agree on the one pager. I'm not I'm indifferent to receiving one like that doesn't bother me or whatever. But what drives me

Jason Croft  32:42  
up the wall. Is no link, no info, no way to find out more in that moment, because I don't know you may have a great pitch. Cool. Let me see your LinkedIn. Let me see your the like, it's just those natural things. And I mean, I'm talking to someone recently, and they purposely don't do that. And I'm telling you, like, Well, from my from the point of view of a host you're trying to reach, it's infuriating.

Jason Croft  33:10  
Everything plays into it, right? Like, like you said, attaching a PDF, having links, anything like that, plays into deliverability. So that's definitely something to think about. I think there's a play to almost have a link or info in a Google Doc that you link to that Gmail will love, right? So there's a way around that. Yes, I like that a lot. That's great. So just a something, right? Just a,

Dustin Riechmann  33:33  
okay, you say all this stuff, but let me see, you know, yeah, in that moment. And just like you mentioned, any podcast host out there, there's just, it seems like to be a real uptick in the last three or four months as well, but like this uptick in just constant outreach for PR firms and blah, blah, blah. And I'm typically having my my single, a single link, in my case, usually the homepage, but then my homepage, basically is written like a it's a story branded version of who I am and how I'm a guide to these types of on these types of topics. So if you go to my homepage like, you pretty quickly, like, oh, he does. You know, everything he says is true. Here's the credibility markers, here's, you know, excerpts from client testimonials and all that stuff. So, yeah, it's a great point, Jason. Like you don't you don't want to make the host work for it, right? You don't want to make them do the work. You want to basically hand them the feeling. As a recipient, should be this person's cool. I like them. They like me. This is really unique. I really like the angle they've taken with these bullet points. And you really want the host to be like this guy or gal has already written like the show outline for me, this is an easy yes, and then yes, the ability to verify okay, they actually are who they say they are. I can look at their LinkedIn. I probably take it for granted too. I have such a unique name. There's only one of me on LinkedIn, but you know, Jason Croft, there's probably a lot of you. So having a direct link to Extra.

Jason Croft  35:00  
No verification, you know, like that probably makes a lot of sense. There's, there's only one, the Jason Croft, the Come on, Dustin, yes, I'm actually looking at your LinkedIn. It is the Jason Croft. So that makes it easier. There you go. Yeah, it's, it's so funny. I mean, obviously there's the horrible ones. There's a laughable ones I've had. I've been trying to figure out where this came from, because it's obviously an AI aspect. But there have been a series that are, Hey, Jason and Fred in your upcoming

Jason Croft  35:31  
just like what metadata is, Are they pulling from? I'm just, I'm fascinated to figure out I've had one guest named Fred in the past, like, years ago, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that's bizarre. I live in a little town that is outside of St Louis, Missouri, but I live in Illinois,

Jason Croft  35:52  
and so I get these pictures that are like, Hey, I love Chicago, or like, how's the weather? Is it snowing in Chicago today? And I'm like, I'm like, five hours from Chicago, and it's July, so it's definitely not snowing, like and so, yeah, the AI overplay is definitely a real thing. Oh yeah, we'll see. I have someone coming up. I think I'm interviewing him this week. I responded just because I had to know how he did it.

Jason Croft  36:21  
It is so good. I'm interviewing him, and he's got this whole software platform. It's, it's, looks really strong, looks really great. And he's, you, he's using his own platform. Because obviously, when we jumped on a call and can, I was like, I got to know how you did this. Because there was just enough, you know, pull from episodes of that. I I knew it was because I'm deep in this, but it was good. It was really good. And that's really his service in the marketing, sales world overall, and he's just applying that to the podcast guesting aspect. I was like, love it off to I'll go look for that one. Lastly, before we get into some of those, those business building aspects, I think again, back and forth, a little bit of when you're showing up as a guest to

Jason Croft  37:14  
just like there are 100 different types of ways you can guess, and different people and personalities, different hosts have their those as well. And the pros that I watch, you know, going being a guest from, you know, watching Lena or DiCaprio and Brad Pitt being interviewed by somebody horrendous, but they're, they're a pro, and they just, they roll with it, right all the way down to somebody who it's their first time it,

Jason Croft  37:42  
you're going to get these, these different plays, and that's that's a big piece of it. Now, I'd love to get your thoughts on how you kind of guide people to be ready for it. Because I know, for me as a host, I want someone your phenomenal guest. Obviously, I would spend nothing less does that from not just the conversation we've had before. But of course, for your your teaching, that would be bad. It's like Dustin's really bad at this. Yeah, clients, listen, he didn't have a call to action. You know, it's like

Dustin Riechmann  38:11  
he hammers us on this every day. Yes, right? But I love the just get on and riff. You know, I've had people and I've, I've just it's been how I've been from the very first show a decade ago till now. I don't have a list of questions. We go on a list. Some hosts do. Some guests freak out if there's not a list of questions. Some despise it. How do you kind of guide people to prep for both and be able to roll with it? Part of the prep starts in step three, which is the pitch, right? And so, yes, it should be a conversation that's organically going to go different places. But in general, if someone's done outreach and they've said, here's the three things I want to teach your audience, the host is generally going to kind of follow that at least as the general outline. And the other thing I would say, if someone's kind of nervous about this idea, is the host does want you to look good, right? Like, the this is not a game of gotcha or trying to trip someone up. And so, you know, there's those ideas of mindset, of like, this is going to be a positive experience. It's just a conversation with someone cool. They already know what I'm coming to talk about, right? There's not, we're not trying to surprise each other, and you should prepare. And so what I typically say, if someone's new, you know, listen to three full episodes and really understand the personality and the nuance. If you're doing this on a more regular basis, and you're more of a veteran at this, I still like to go and listen to at least the first 10 minutes and last 10 minutes of the last one or two episodes, because the critical times in the interview are typically the beginning, at the introduction, and then at the end, like, how do they set me up for a call to action? Or how do they handle the close out of the show? And then the things in the middle are typically the teaching time, the story, the storytelling, and that's a little more natural. So listen the first 10 and.

Dustin Riechmann  40:00  
Minutes, last 10 minutes of a recent interview. So you're like, good. I've literally had shows where I booked it, and then six months later, when we actually recorded, it was a different host. So like, you know, and then if there is, like, you'll, you'll quickly know if they ask the same questions, or they have a lightning round at the end where they ask the same three questions to close out the show. Like, you don't want to get caught off guard by those things, but that's really easy. Just listen on the morning walk.

Dustin Riechmann  40:26  
Another thing that we do, I'll admit to my clients listening, I don't have one, but typically what we'll recommend, especially if this is something new, or we call it the magic post it note, and it's literally as you're doing this prep, and you're thinking you're listening to the most recent episodes. Have a very simple post it note that you can put on your computer that has the host name and how to pronounce it, you know, because that can be really awkward if their name shows up as hosts and you're like, Oh, crap, what's their name? Like, this is so embarrassing. And then it will have your couple of key stories that you want to kind of remind yourself this, I want to make sure that I teach these things. And then it's going to have your call to action on there, so you don't forget the URL, or wherever you're trying to send people at the end. And then if there's like a lightning round, or just some sort of nuance with this show or this host, it's right there on the post it note. I like to do that, and have clients do that, sort of the Lebron James, you know, he walks on to the NBA court before every game. He takes the talcum powder and he blows it up in the air, and he's like, putting on his alter ego. He's stepping into the professional identity of, like, game on. And that's the same thing for podcasting, right? It's like, I want to lock in, break out distractions. This post it note is sort of like my my statement to myself that I'm ready. And it's a bit of a security blanket. So if you feel like you blank out, or like, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out. I don't remember what the call to action was supposed to be, you can glance down at it very innocently and go on your way. So those are, you know, some of the things that we help people kind of prepare in the moment. You know, in our program, we do things like put people in breakout rooms and do mock interviews and have you practice introducing yourself and telling your origin story, because those are going to be pretty much constant in every interview, right? And we actually give people

Dustin Riechmann  42:08  
sort of a structure to which stories to tell in a given interview, just so they have that that sort of go to content that they know they can kind of use it anytime. It doesn't always come up in every interview, your This interview is much more free form. We're kind of talking inside baseball. But, you know, I have stories that I can often just kind of pull out of the quiver and say, Oh, here's an example of that. And, and, you know? And so that, that's how we help people prepare and go to stories, a post it note, some practice, doing some mock interviews, and then just that basic preparation of listening to a recent episode. It's really as simple as that. I love that you're doing the mock interviews in there, because there's, there is no substitute for just doing the reps. I meant to say, I'm sorry if you're new and you're like, Oh man, I don't know if I'm ready. We'll just go get on three or five small shows, friends shows, just get the reps in Right? Like the way you're going to get better at thinking on your feet and being interviewed is by doing more interviews. And one of the big side benefits of doing podcasting is it gets you more clear in your messaging, right? And so there's no substitute for improving your marketing, your clarity, your messaging, than getting asked questions about what you do repeatedly. And in that you will find the hooks, you'll find the stories that people the host really resonates with, and so just do it repeatedly, is the real answer here. But if you're nervous to even start, then do all the things I talked about, just to prepare and make sure that you have the confidence going into your first few interviews. Oh yeah. And I'll add to that, it's the last thing anyone wants to do, and it's so critical, whether you're hosting your own show or you're guesting,

Jason Croft  43:47  
yes, do the reps over and over and listen and watch every single one back. Yes, cringe and do it anyway, right? Yeah, exactly. It's the work. None of us except me. Now I love my voice now. None of us, when we're starting out ever we start hearing our voice for the first time, often. Yes, we hate it. I cannot tell you the amount of times I'm listening to a show back from my my first show startup Dallas, way back in the day, and just I'm yelling at myself in the car, like, what are you doing? Finish a sentence? Man, like, just angry. Can't stand my voice, all of that. But that was so critical, because in the moment, I didn't remember

Jason Croft  44:40  
going a whole interview, not finishing sentence, or taking a breath or right, yeah, yeah. And you'll find those words, those ums, you knows all of that, and the only way you're going to to improve on that is if you listen to it back. And the amazing thing that happens this goes so far beyond podcasting, is.

Jason Croft  45:00  
You become a better communicator on Zoom calls, in person, everything when you, when you do that, like somebody I know very recently, and they're just like, Yeah, I've been on 100 you know? I'm just gonna keep getting better at it. Like, well, obviously you're not listening back, because you're not getting better. And I if you're 100 in and you're still sound like this, there's a there's an issue, right? And I know that's the reason, right? It's awesome. You better off that you were doing the reps. Be countless and back you gotta it's game tape, right? It's going through and getting better. Be a pro review your game tape. I 100% agree with that, and I'll admit, I don't do that with every interview, but the what I would call kind of the Keystone interviews, like interviews where it did result in something, you know, big, or an interview where maybe we touched on something new. You know, I've been interviewed 100 times, and so it's

Dustin Riechmann  45:58  
really interesting when someone kind of goes down a new tangent. I find that very exciting. As someone who's done this a lot, that can be terrifying for someone who's not prepared for it. I love to go back and listen to those interviews, because then I'm like, how, you know, what? Why do we go there? What? What am I excited when I hear this topic? Because it's like the fodder for the next, you know, the next interview, or the next LinkedIn posts, because there's something, there's something magical that gets captured in some of these moments. And if you are resistant to it, and you just kind of put your head down and say, I don't want to listen back to that, you're going to miss a lot of value that you could, you could be garnering from this process. And I love the little post it note aspect too. That's where my head went with it too. Is even if you never use this just that like a little safety net, especially in the in the beginning, another little inside baseball real fast.

Jason Croft  46:47  
But the only time this was fascinating learning for me, the only

Jason Croft  46:53  
time I ever prepped a list of questions I was doing the an interview live, like studio audience, live for the first time. And, you know, we're in person, group of folks. And I didn't know why I did. I was just like, yeah, let me I'm just gonna extra prep, right? We're doing this. And I realized

Jason Croft  47:17  
there in the moment that when I'm usually doing these, I've got kind of two tracks going. One is, I'm listening to the guest. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, cool. That's the other track is, oh, that's a good point. Oh, I could go this direction with that. Oh, I could take this. Oh, that's Oh yeah. Maybe we'll hit that. Well, when I was live in front of that audience, that second track was taken up with, oh, they laughed at that. Oh, the audience is like, are they into it? Are they watching? Oh, so question it, you know, answer ends. I'm like,

Jason Croft  47:52  
so thank goodness.

Dustin Riechmann  47:55  
Yeah. Awkward pause, yeah, yeah, that little safety net in there that was a that was a fascinating little little learning felt so that safety nets can be good. Yeah, well, you notice the great interviewers, the late night host, or the, you know, Larry King, they have cards like, they do prepare, and they do think through. And I'm sure, I've never seen one of those cards, but I'm sure there's a sort of a decision tree, sort of effect of like, hey, if we go here, here's a question. I want to make sure I get in or if we go here, I want to make sure I kind of dig into this personal story or something like that that I'm fascinated with. And again, you can do that as a guest as well. The thing as a guest is, this is the final thing I'll say, I'm sure we want to get into the profit and stuff. But

Jason Croft  48:41  
if you're a guest, you do have agency. I think that's that's something that guests forget, is like, Well, I'm not the host, you're not the host, but you can answer questions the way that you feel like the answer they should be answered, right? And so not everything has to be a direct yes and no or sort of like scripted answer to a single question. You can take that question and bridge it into a story that you really want to get into the interview, that maybe they're not thinking to ask you in the moment. And so I always tell our guests that it's like you do have agency, like you are an equal part, and in most cases, you're going to be 75 80% of the actual words on the podcast. So give yourself a little creative freedom in how you respond to some of these questions too. That's really important. I haven't even thought about that. That's a that's an empowering piece, especially when you're first doing that, to have that reminder it's less confrontational and dramatic than what's going through your head right now. Listener, I guess you bring that up. It's not the politician dodging a question, right? They're trying to get them in a corner. It's nothing like that, but it could be something that I know how powerful, like this core story is, like, it's everything. I'm gonna make sure I get it there. That's a great point. Yeah, before we wrap up, let's if you could give us some ideas of more than Hey, go to you.

Dustin Riechmann  50:00  
This website and download my PDF. You know, like, that's where my head goes when I think, oh, have a call to action. Have a lead magnet. What are these other ways to really make this whole thing profitable as you, as you go through it? Yeah. So our the big idea here, what we like to create with clients. When I would encourage anyone to create their version of this is a flywheel effect, a marketing flywheel. And so the whole idea is, if you're going to put the energy in through an interview and your expertise, you want that to drive not just listener downloads of the lead magnet of the call to action. Like you should definitely do that. Like that should be a part of the equation. But there's a lot more opportunity available beyond that. And so, you know, we don't have the benefit of a visual here, but if, if the listener can kind of put a circle in their mind, like a merry go round, and just think of wedges going around the outside of it. And so it will start with the interview starts to spin this, this merry go round. It starts to spin this flywheel, right? And as we work our way around the outside and start to, like, increase the velocity of this thing spinning, we do have an email list component that we want to grow, and that's going to come from the call to action. We do have direct sales that can absolutely happen. I'd say those two wedges are really the listener. So, like, how do we call the listener to action and get them to get on our email list, and maybe buy something from us if they're ready. But then if you proceed from there, this is the part where people usually don't, don't, just don't see it. This is where the other relationships come into play. So a key relationship that's gonna be in every interview you ever do is the host relationship, right? So what can I do to deepen the relationship with this host? Leave them a review, say kind thing, share their stuff on social media. They're going to be a referral source for you, almost by default. I've had lots of people become clients after we've done an interview, because they're like, oh, like, this is really good. I should, I should actually do this for my business, because we build a great rapport. And I showed up and I was professional. So the host is a big one. The guest list is the one I want to actually jump into for another minute here, Jason, so I'll come back to that. But there's all these other opportunities with other guests on this show that everyone pretty much overlooks. But if we complete the complete the the analogy here, after the guest list, another wedge here is content repurposing, right? And so a lot of people, they record the interview, it goes live, and they're like, that was cool. And there's so much more you could be doing with that same content, you know, so especially with AI tools and everything. So if you're writing a newsletter or doing LinkedIn, you have a YouTube channel, this can be the source of so much of your content is being interviewed, and pulling out the golden nuggets from those interviews to feed the other things. And then the kind of loop closure here, the bottom of this, of this wheel that we're talking about is authority. And so the idea is, as I do one interview, I grow my email list, make some sales, have another relationship with a great host. This whole guest list, thing that we're going to talk a little bit about, I've got content to repurpose all of this serves to grow my authority, right? And now that I have more authority, I can get on the next show more easily, and I can get on bigger shows, right, and so if you just kind of continue to spin this wheel, the idea is it's building momentum, so that every time you do a podcast guesting appearance, and you're doing it systematically, you get on bigger shows, and it's easier to get on to the point that, frankly, I

Jason Croft  53:21  
don't think I've sent a cold, quote, unquote cold. I don't think I've sent a proactive outreach to a host in like, two years. And why is that? It's because I have more authority now, and I get referred to people at some of these other strategies that we do do with the host and the guest list. It shortcuts this whole process to where step three in the five Ps kind of goes away. You know, it's like you don't really have to pitch, because you've got enough authority that people are coming to you, and it really becomes a virtuous cycle. So that's kind of the big idea of that. This is multi faceted. There's a lot that you can feed from, from every given interview you do, and is okay if I jump into the guest list, or do you have a question about the flywheel, kind of overall do, let's, let's jump in that. I just want to add on to when you're talking about that content, repurposing something I don't do as much as well. It's not also, not just when this episode goes out like the day you record it. Take a screenshot. Do this. Hey, I was just on, you know, there's that feeds it all as well. Oh, this is about to come out. Now it's coming. You know, you can extend that as well. And to add on to your point, if you are on a show, you do promote, put these, these elements out on your own. Of course, interact with the hosts, you know, promotion of that show, but on your own, do that, you will stand out as a guest. It makes zero sense to me. I don't understand it. But people are people be people in and it is insanely rare for someone to go and.

Dustin Riechmann  55:00  
To promote their episode that they were on with your show. It's and it's feelings aren't hurt. It's happened way too long, like, it's just like, I don't get it, but it just happens. So when you do that, you can really stand out. Yeah, if you want to be a top 1% guest, here's the insider secret. Obviously, prepare and, you know, do a good job on your interview. But number two, when the thing gets published, go leave a five star review on your platform of choice, Apple podcast, Spotify whatever, and then thank the host, tell them you left them a five star review, like a written review, and then share it on your social media channel of choice. Like, as simple and silly as that sounds, and you can attest to this as a host to Jason, like, top for sure, the top 5% if not the top 1% and so when you do that, then if I go to Jason, I'm like, hey, this was awesome. I just left you a five star rating. And really appreciate everything that you do. I've got, I got it queued up. I'm gonna be sharing it on LinkedIn tomorrow if I was to make an ass. Like, is there any other shows that you think my content would fit on. Guess what? Podcast hosts, no other podcast hosts. They're also guests, and they're it's a very tight knit community when you get into podcasting, and it doesn't take much to stand out and be remembered as, like, that's a really good dude. He was a really quality guest, and he left me a review, and no one leaves me reviews. So like, that's a very simple thing that you can do. Just make it part of your standard procedures. Every time we get one published, it comes to me. I bookmark it so I can always have reference to it, and I leave. I get on my own phone with my own words, and I leave a quick rating, and then we would let the host know and we share it on social. So I'm glad we keyed on that wedge of the host relationship

Dustin Riechmann  56:40  
guest list real quick. I know we're short here. Big idea here is, if you're on a show and they do interviews, you're not the only one being interviewed, right? And so just think about or look at the list of other guests that have been on this show. And keep in mind that these shows are typically interviewing new people every week, so this becomes an evergreen source of relationship building. And so what we like to do is we'll we're on a show it gets published, we're going to go look and see who else has been on that show that we might want to have a relationship with, right? And these relationships kind of fall into three buckets. So this individual could be a potential client, they could be a potential partner. So maybe they do something that would be complimentary to the work that we do, or they could have a platform. Many of the people being interviewed also have podcasts, right? And then they also have YouTube channels or LinkedIn followings. And so you can go through very easily and say Jason's a potential partner, and Jill's a potential podcast host, because she has a great show, and Jimmy is a he actually could be a potential client. He seems like he's like, writing our ideal client profile. And then you have this evergreen, growing list of people that you're in the cool kids club with, because you both have the shared visibility and authority of being on a show. And then you can simply reach out, like on LinkedIn, do a connection request and say, Hey, Jason, you and I are both on path show.

Dustin Riechmann  58:03  
Great job. I'd really love to connect with you. Get about 80% of people say yes to that, because it's, again, it's a warm reason to reach out. And then from there, you know, the conversation can ensue, however it should, depending on which bucket they're in. So this is a whole strategy that we help people actually implement and do on a scalable way. But it's like, every, every podcast that you do, if it's with the right market, and you, you know, have the right approach to it, can open up many different relationship avenues that can lead to, you know, really, really big things for your business.

Jason Croft  58:35  
Oh, I love that. Yeah, I've it's been in the,

Jason Croft  58:39  
I don't know, on the outskirts of my head of just like, oh yeah, that's a thing. But never put so

Dustin Riechmann  58:46  
purposefully and succinctly as that. And then that last part of Yeah. And then times every show that you go on, yeah, if you're on, well, show a week now, you've got 50 hosts a year that you're developing relationships with, and if they have 100 relationships with. And if they have 100 guests, that's whatever, that's 5000 or something, there's a lot of individuals there. You know, if you're a host to something that we started doing, Jason, you know, I'm doing interviews as well. Some of these interviews are clients. Some of these interviews are coaching, sort of opportunities, where I'm helping someone with the stuff that we do. And some of them are more aspirational, where it's an author or someone I really want to connect with, and it's a way to build a relationship with them. And so in our community, which is, you know, people that are clients of ours, we do quarterly networking events for for our clients. And so we get everyone together on Zoom, and we have a really cool networking event. It's what I've started to do, is the guests from that quarter. I say, hey, why don't you come to our networking event? And so it's sort of a VIP invitation. This is for clients only, but because you're a guest on the show, I want to invite you in. Our clients love it, because these people are all amazing people, and a lot of them have podcasts. And of course, the person being invited gets a taste of what we do in our community. So you know, some of those folks end up signing up.

Dustin Riechmann  1:00:00  
Become clients. It's just a simple value add, and it's like, like, it takes very little effort to do that. Or another version of this is, if you're going to speak at a conference, make a connection with all the other speakers before, during or after the conference, right? Like, hosted dinner, and invite some of your favorite speakers to come to the dinner, because you're in the cool kids club. Again, like, I think people lose sight of the fact that by being a guest or a host or a conference speaker, you have so much

Dustin Riechmann  1:00:29  
sort of power available to you to be a connector and bring other people together. And you have a very good excuse to do that, because it's like, oh, we're, you know, we all have something in common. It happens to be this podcast that we have in common, and people were very receptive to that. So there's a lot a lot more we could share on that, you know, at a different time, but the whole idea of building relationships to go all the way back to the beginning of this interview. There's so many ways to enrich and build relationships. And I think podcasting opens up, you know, just a plethora of ideas and ways to do this and do the thing that feels natural, and, you know, vibes with your personality. But what you shouldn't do, in my opinion, is, Do this, do the interview? Have it be published, and have that be the end of the story? That's the beginning of the story. 10% of this is getting on the right shows and doing a good job. 80 90% is all the stuff you can do with it after the fact. And I hope that's the, you know, one of the things people take away from our conversation?

Jason Croft  1:01:24  
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that piece, to give people that permission, whether in that speaking role, the guest role, like just take it, right, take that, that that take the lead on something like that.

Jason Croft  1:01:42  
It's just because it's waiting for someone to take that and just, you know, make your own group of hey, people who have been on the show of so and so you could even go that far with it. But it's just just again, one more way to reach out, build these relationships that actually there's just, at least this much reason, quote, unquote, right? Just, and you just start to connect with folks. I love it. So give us your call to action. Yeah, I do have a call to action. And really, what this is for, if someone's listening and they're like, Hey, I think this podcast guesting thing is something I should explore more deeply.

Dustin Riechmann  1:02:21  
The five Ps that I referenced earlier is exactly what we teach. And we put together this podcast profits playbook. It is literally going through each of those five Ps. It's got a workbook, basically for each of those very simple one pager, so you can get clear on your purpose. You can find the first 10 podcasts you want to be on. We help you write your pitch. We give you all of the, you know, templates and AI tools and stuff to do that, coach you through how to be an effective interviewee. And then we actually get into this guest list strategy and guide you through how to do this the first time we do all that for free. My business model is basically give you everything so you can do it yourself. And then if you're like, I'd actually like Dustin's personal help. I'd like to be in community. I want to get the shortcut version. You know, that's what people pay us to do. But this free version is a seven figure leap.com/start

Dustin Riechmann  1:03:09  
so yeah, seven figure leap with the number. If you're watching the video, you can see it over my shoulder. Seven figure leap.com/start

Dustin Riechmann  1:03:16  
you just plug in your email and we'll start delivering one email a day for five days to walk you through those 5p and let you get up and start building your own momentum with this strategy. Fantastic. We'll have all that in the show notes as well. I love it. I recommend everyone go check this out. Download this as a start, jump in work with us. I just I love your approach, both on, certainly that giving aspect. But as you guide people through this, you can tell in this interview right here that your mind just expands on what's possible with with this so absolutely been awesome. Dustin, thank you so much for being on. Yeah, my pleasure. Jason, always love to connect with someone who's passionate about podcasting, it's fun to kind of get behind the scenes with some of the stuff that we've experienced. And yeah, hopefully got people got some value and kind of open their mind up to the possibilities of how they can build better relationships and grow their business. And you know, hosting, guesting, podcasting is definitely a winning strategy. And so hopefully everyone got some actionable takeaways so they can go make that happen Absolutely. All right, see you all next time,

Jason Croft  1:04:25  
thanks for joining us on strategy and action. Remember true industry leaders don't chase opportunities. They attract them. Want to build your own market gravity. Visit media leads co.com

Jason Croft  1:04:38  
See you next time you you.